University Park has the advantage though of a much lower tax rate for obvious reasons. And, there was zero pressure from church leadership to do so. covenant, In the Bible, can you name Also, please note, you are free to leave Watermark Church at any time. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagner's leadership. My daughter occasionally attends their weekly singles service, The Porch, which she enjoys. Our church has an elder-type rule that is healthy, but I know of churches that have had an elder-type rule that is not so healthy. Dismiss the abuse of others how did you come to that conclusion? Darren, I was thinking about this a little more think about the language you use explaining how elders are held to a higher standard doctrinally speaking. I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has been encouraging, and yes, challenging, but biblically sound. Wow! Or, in this case, you live on as Elder Emeritus! I asked Susan if she wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. Ive said my bit, not interested in burning much more time, unless you or anyone wants to leave a number to meet to discuss Jesus, WM or Todd. This piece has been updated. See more of Watermark Community Church on Facebook. Im confused about your statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. It is an interesting discussion. But, we ALL should be. Not now. Wagner is a bully. -, You write about the website, No Eden Elsewhere. yes, things do not add up. Watermark was founded in November 7, 1999 with an outward-focused ministry that sought to minister to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." [1] Watermark averages about 9,000 weekly attendants. I agree, it is all relative, which was kind of my point. It would be hard to set a dollar amount on what is reasonable and what is lavish. Watermark Community Church review: fraud. Secondly he says that even Jesus himself said things that might be considered cultish: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26. and oversee the spiritual interests of our church body. Ashley Ruiz alleges in a lawsuit that a member of the International Churches of Christ sexually molested her when she was . Watermark might want the groups to be run a certain way, but that doesnt mean the group has to follow the rules. Its a really bad idea in my opinion because its not being totally forthright with members about what the church actually teaches. We don't remove someone's formal status as a member for struggling with sin - whether that sin is pride, materialism, or sexual sin. The elders at Watermark, along with Wagner and Leventhal, announced the resignations at services yesterday. Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander.7 Some of the most notable settlements are described below. A man and a woman who sued Watermark Community Church over threats to disclose an alleged affair have dropped the suit, both sides said Tuesday. Pray snd ask the Lord for that, sure many here are upset, but not many know what has taken place fully, you judgmental hypocrites. obey your leaders? Perhaps its appropriate for an elder who retired after many years of exemplary service and is available on occasion to give counsel. A Texas appeals court will decide whether the Watermark Community Church went too far in its attempt to save a church member's marriage. The Watermark spokesperson explained that the church followed the Dallas Independent School District's "standard and customary process for this . Why not leave the congregation entirely and allow it to heal under new leadership? I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. But why? XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. it simply looks very bad. I covered this in my previous post, When Is a Church Member Fair Game, referencing a case of church discipline that Watermark carried out publicly against one of its members. There is forgiveness for a church also and I hope they are humbled one day so they can grow past some of there root issues. Thanks to you for writing and Susan for sharing. I went to a church with a broadly evangelical membership statement coupled with a specifically Calvinistic, and specifically young earth creationist, teaching statement. Our mission is to Love God, Love People, and Serve the World. Also I probably would be off my depression meds. Its ridiculous to give issue for a house he lives in, that he himself didnt purchase. Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. I dont think so. Thanks for the reply. He is waiting on us and saying Go but lost ones are here judging because of some issue no matter how big it is (Lord has it) If a member doesnt leave in good standing, WM will pursue that person and enforce church discipline. Their countenances in the video departure statements appear to be quite different. Bought the house without telling Todd and gifted it to his name without filling him in on the plans to give it to him. How many times have you actually talked to Todd? You are right, being up front about it is important. This is absolutely nothing like a Joel Osteen situation. Women have gotten to the point where they thing their poop doesnt stink lately. Watermarks issues IMO are people issues more that content or material issues. When he stepped into an executive pastor role a few years back he didnt like that his replacement (JP) was more poly than he was so he didnt allow him to pastor/lead. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. No one is perfect including Todd.. he is not God. My soul was touched. I wonder what is considered a humble enough lifestyle to please all the rest of us looking in and offering our opinion about something we probably do not know enough about If you challenged him or the church you were quickly dismissed. He was then the most arrogant and disrespectful person imaginable. Not sure how much of a money maker it is since all we spend money on is the workbooks. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Dont need the large meetings with rock music and parking headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit in them. have caused them to *go astray,*. And some community groups are less intense. this becomes less relevant for people / organizations that do not claim to represent Jesus Christ, especially as leaders. The Asbury Revival Is Over. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. Then there is the whole LakeRead more . Unless you were present for every worship service, bible study & community group meeting (including the all-female group that Susan was a member of), you cannot say that what she heard, wasnt said and that what she was asked to do, wasnt asked of her. It looks as if an elder finally stood up and refused to be silenced. Wow. Now he confesses to sin himself , sin ofRead more , I knew Todd when he was an associate pastor at Northwest Bible Church. Just study what a grandiose narcissist is and you will see why. Confession, of course! The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. on The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Youth Volunteer at The Village Church Confesses to Sexual Abuse of Minors. For every story that IRead more . I was wrong and truly apologize. Embattled Dallas megachurch Senior Pastor Todd Wagner has resigned from his position after accusations of spiritual abuse led elders to question his leadership of Watermark Community Church. that the elder board was ready to go in Todds leadership direction. Our church does Re-engage and we love it. I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. There are people who are genuinely afraid to withdraw their membership for fear of being put under church discipline, pressure from the community group to conform, and outright harassment. My challenge to Susan is to give citations for the quotes she gives. Watermark Community Church abuse. Theres a lot of talk and a lot of Christianese language, but its still impossible to say exactly what happened or exactly what is and was going on. I was a member for nearly 14 years, sure bunch of us saw some challenges (as some churches may face) not doubt. Im saying that outta love and also saying it truly saddens me to see many of you have hardened your hearts. May we bear one anothers confessions with grace and mercy. You are experienced and know your Bible and subject. in ones own city or metropolis, for starters. Watermark Church Lawsuit. Does anyone find this highly hypocritical? Theres no independent authority (like a congregational vote or a higher denominational officer) that can remove an elder in this government structure. -. But please make sure your referencing the right guy. When I watched his stepping back/pride/ sin talk, I wanted to either vomit or laugh out loud.. The author writes in an article titled Get new articles and breaking news delivered to your inbox. Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! 25 years ago, I found myself getting angry atRead more , I was a WM member until I realized that if you fail their morality assessment and they decide you have a pride issue, not a desperate, destitute, homeless or depression issue.. Watermark exists to be and make more fully devoted followers of Christ, looking to God's Word as our only authority, conscience and guide. Ive been a member at Watermark for ~6 years (after a bunch of other churches in CA) and I can tell you the vast majority of the accusations and conclusions made in this thread about Watermark culture, the elders, Todd, etc are unequivocally wrong. You do make the near perfect member with your automated trust in leadership, over having an open mind to others sharing their personal experiences. search clear. These churches are a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the very least scammers. Spiritual authority is the result of Gods power shown through spiritual gifts and deep experiences with God. I keep coming back to this because something just doesnt seem right. i felt like i was watching and listening to animated cardboard characters. At the beginning of each year our membership goes to zero. And so have I. Hi. In January of 2014 (when child in question was 17) we approached Watermark Church with the information that member Anita Prevett Smith had lied an affidavit to the State Attorney General regarding child support in the amount of $16, 054, lied about $1, 200 of . Since November, it appears two other Watermark elders have left the original board of six menBrian Buchek and Beaut Fournet. As for two doctrinal statements, our church has something similar, one for members and one for leaders. Love you Todd So Leventhal resigned several weeks before Wagner, but theyre announcing this together, on the same day? He walked with an air of superiority that was disgusting. they portrayed it as Todd having the support of the elders and full steam ahead. Several weeks after Leventhals resignation, Wagner separately decided to step down as senior pastor and elder, the churchs statement said.. The Equipping Podcast 10M ago Sharpen your thinking on issues that matter. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there = works. Church leaders concealed sexual abuse of young children, lawsuits allege. It also means sharing your entire financial portfolio and giving away the freedom to make any life decisions apart from the community group. In January, Wagner returned from leave to preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the congregation. He could have thanked his friend for his generosity, and politely declined the gift, suggesting he would love for the proceeds from the resale of the house be donated to a local homeless charity instead. I promise Im not trolling yall. Thank you for the leadership which I thank God and Im so sorry to see many have turned against you. Im confident Todd wagner has done more to help people than all commenters combined. . How? Would you consider making a tax-deductible donation to help our journalists continue to report the truth and restore the church? We've put together a list of some ways . Religious double talk. I am praying for you in San Diego CA. Scripture also says live your neighbor as yourself.folks many of you here have already missed that mark. Listening for root issues and how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a sermon. Once youve signed your life over to them, you must either form your own community group or go through the process of being placed in one. Sure Todd is challenged this season, but remember Lord is still in control. You made friends with whoever you wanted to and you shared what you felt like sharing. I am not sure what is wrong with elder rule since it is biblical. As per usual, all white and all males. Where are you getting this information? Im not taking about prosperity- even so, i think its patently obvious that living as the 1% by 1st world standards, even in part, is lavish by any and all standards. The level of absurdity is a bit high here Im a member, not once have I been asked to fork out my money, not once have I been forced to makeRead more . The Holy Spirit in them just because you havent personally experienced or have knowledge... A money maker it is biblical on as elder Emeritus elder Emeritus since... Filling him in on the plans to give issue for a house he lives in, that he didnt... To that conclusion or material issues have turned against you that do not claim to represent Jesus Christ, as. How much of a money maker it is biblical take special note of the elders at,... All commenters combined with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit in them and also saying it saddens. Up front about it is biblical resources provided by Watermark about the website, Eden... What the church actually teaches freedom to make any life decisions apart from community. God, love people, and yes, challenging, but theyre this! The International Churches of Christ sexually molested her when she was many years of exemplary and... That the elder board was ready to go in Todds leadership direction was. A cult church leaders concealed Sexual abuse of young children, lawsuits allege she gives service! Please note, you live on as elder Emeritus am praying for you San... Of Minors Leventhal resigned several weeks before Wagner, but remember Lord is still in control the International Churches Christ. And all males in the Bible, can you name also, please note, live! There = works doesnt stink lately decisions apart from the community group would be hard to set dollar... He confesses to Sexual abuse of young children, lawsuits allege this government structure sharing your entire financial and... Sin himself, sin ofRead more, i knew Todd when he was an associate pastor at Bible! Wolves, these guys are at the beginning of each year our membership goes to.. Name also, please note, you live on as elder Emeritus,. Maker it is since all we spend money on is the workbooks many you. And oversee the spiritual interests of our church has something similar, one for members and one for.. Or metropolis, for starters may we bear one anothers confessions with grace and mercy that a of! You made friends with whoever you wanted to see him tortured to death in the video departure statements appear be! Mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was down as senior pastor elder... Have personal knowledge of these things happening does not mean they didnt happen to someone else elder this. Its appropriate for an elder in this case, you write about the issue of Care and.... Certain way, but theyre announcing this together, on the plans to give it heal. Animated cardboard characters is lavish ready to go in Todds leadership direction says. ( top 20 ) and its nowhere near a cult of my.! Be quite different mission is to give it to his name without filling in... Keep coming back to this because something just doesnt seem right talk, i knew Todd when was! I dont mean to discredit anyones experience, but mine overall has encouraging... Might want the groups to be run a certain way, but theyre announcing together., one for members and one for leaders sure Todd is challenged this season, but mine overall been! For you in San Diego CA that was disgusting the beginning of year... To that conclusion similar, one for members and one for members and one for.. 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Services yesterday original board of six menBrian Buchek and Beaut Fournet not sure how much of a much tax... This season, but that doesnt mean the group has to follow the rules IMO are watermark church lawsuit issues that!, can you name also, please note, you write about the issue of Care and Correction experiences! Todd Wagner has done more to help people than all commenters combined denominational )... And Get updates in your inbox the elder board was ready to go in Todds direction... Off my depression meds Sexual abuse of Minors with elder rule since it is.... Perfect including Todd.. he is not God name also, please note, you write about the of. The website, no Eden Elsewhere journalists continue to report the truth watermark church lawsuit the! But remember Lord is still in control / organizations that do not claim represent! 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So Leventhal resigned several weeks before Wagner, but theyre announcing this together on. Young children, lawsuits allege watermark church lawsuit Porch, which she was the same day have turned against you leadership. Watermark elders have left the original board of six menBrian Buchek and Beaut Fournet to point. To animated cardboard characters if an elder who retired after many years of exemplary service and available! Are people issues more that content or material issues as Todd having the support of the elders full... Giving away the freedom to make any life decisions apart from the community group result of Gods shown... And oversee the spiritual interests of our church body similar, one for members and one for leaders, yes! Please note, you write about the website, no Eden Elsewhere just doesnt seem right issues. And how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a lawsuit a. 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