He was a success story. The fact that he felt ok about this statement says a lot of about an addict's powers of denial. He got to tell me he loved us kids, my sister was incarcerated and my brother was living in another state. I pray one day my conscience will grow stronger, so that this wouldn't be necessary. Scroll down to the bottom of the post. as opposed to their christian relatives who have been strapped with all manner of convoluted *& conjectured* shoulds and shouldnts. 104:1415). Valerie Jacobsen (updated 3/28: Valerie is not R.C. Sr. cant make Jr. stop drinking. Provisions have also been made in order to detect error, sin, falsehood and the demonstration of improper behavior within the body of Christ believers. He has been through enough pain without your unfounded accusations and threats even that if his son hurts someone it will be on his head . If you think that is hateful, your gripe is with the Bible not with me. But putting him out of the church does not stop him getting that assistance. I absolutely am. Having their family members go to programs like Al-Anon helps as well, as they learn not to enable the alcoholic and to take care of themselves. If you are a subordinate leader (and maybe not always in lock-step with the top dog), you will be more likely to be asked or forced to step down. https://rachelheldevans.com/blog/ask-a-recovering-alcopholic-response-heather-kopp. Sproul Jr. 16 A Theologian from the Burgh Stephen J. Nichols 28 A Shepherd of God's People Burk Parsons 32 A Friend and Father in the Faith Sinclair B. Ferguson 38 Faithful to the End W. Robert Godfrey Meet Again Miguel Nez An Unashamed Herald They have to want it themselves, and desperately so. Julie Anne, who to the best of my understanding has no education about substance abuse, defended Barbara. I think a spouse should leave and take the children (better yet kick the addict out of the house) I have seen people who lose their family and job recover and then the family can be restored. My friends parents were killed on impact, and my friend was severely injured. Barbra said that R.C. It caused him to victim-blame everyone any time they shared some struggle they were going through with him, even though they were not at fault. (LogOut/ Not the family, not the legal system, not the medical people-the church. I hope he will have the strength to remain clean. This is inexcusable and seriously hurts your credibility. And I agree with #3 the kicker is, does HE want treatment? Hope makes not ashamed. Having said that, I suggest you read the verses I gave (1 Cor 5:11-13). RC Sproul Jr Had therapy and continues to do so. I take her at her word. His case was in the court system. I think the way these churches do it IS called accountability groups where people are urged to confess everything to the group and Im not sure what happens next . Based on everything Im reading about this guy in this thread and the OP by various people, (that he joined an adultery site, hes been a bully for years, is authoritarian, he has his church ostracize ex members, etc) are you saying that this bad fruit should be ignored, all because the guy is also an alcoholic? :'(. Velour wrote: Spouses are taught to take care of themselves, to not enable the problem drinker, and to let the problem drinker face the consequences of their actions. So it makes it very difficult to believe theres anything genuine about it now. If alcoholism is a disease, its the only one you can buy in a bottle. Those two do not go together. claimed that Al-Anon and sponsors tell people to separate from alcoholic spouses. I encourage you not to necessarily believe every thing you hear about us. Not just over the alcohol, but based on his other actions (using a cheating site etc) he has disqualified himself. Why? Crushed the left side of my skull. I wish to God I had not had to learn what I have about addictions. But please accept the fact that we dont all agree with you on all the details, including what if any role a local church should play in the life of an alcoholic. However, aswe noted previously,Drug Court only applies to misdemeanor charges. We were basically a para church ministry. But bum-hood is not gender specific. Can you imagine for one second the shame and embarrassment of having everyone know that your mom is a fall down drunk? With as much as hes paying his attorney, and as competent as his attorney is, he could very well convince the court to drop the felony and convert it to a misdemeanor. Im not getting the disconnect going on in this thread. Have you not caught up? In time, this changes for the better. He has suffered tragedies, yes. I think a spouse should leave and take the children (better yet kick the addict out of the house) I have seen people who lose their family and job recover and then the family can be restored. Of course people have to want sobriety for it to work. For example check out the DSM regarding personality disorders and note the dysfunctional behaviors attached to the diagnoses and note the link between the dysfunctional behaviors and the diagnosis-not everything is due to some prior trauma-not in the eyes of those whom we trust to know about these things. His emotional and psychological issues are not the result of his being an alcoholic its the other way around. What RC-Jr did was jump from one denomination to another so he could continue in his own ministry, and the denominations do not respect one anothers defrocking (although they usually respect one anothers ordinations). Too. The former statement had stronger language. The sin is not in the drinking of the wine itself, it is in violating the conscience (vv. (Expire a life, or innocence or a reputation, or a familys resources, etc.) They also seem to be very kind and generous; not manipulative, etc. Sproul, Jr. has a new book coming out, published by Ichthus Publications (what were they thinking???). What a hateful thing to recommend that be done for someone with a serious substance abuse problem. He is now a wonderful father and husband. Being a drunkard is just a symptom of some much deeper issues. Some people view CR as just a Christian version of AA because it was founded by an AA leader. I appreciate Barbaras ministry to domestic violence victims on her and Jeff Crippens blog. Do people who have alcoholism or other issues get passes from rules and standards that apply to everyone else? I went through something similar, only no one died, I was 18 and driving, and the driver who hit me was not drunk he was undergoing chemo, wasnt supposed to be driving. I have been concerned for some time, like you, about her banning codependency terminology, which is helpful in describing the dynamics in many families. We learned a lot during these years. masks off! He has to be protected from injuring himself or others-regardless of the fact that it is a sickness and not a crime. I think theres a mixing of apples and oranges here, and its been going on since the very start of this thread. I know people, who are close to me, involved with St. Peters I love and miss dearly. Time to get specific. It didnt sober him up but its good for maintenance of the recovery. They should face the consequences of their actions, including job loss. The very people he ridiculed recovering alcoholics will probably be the first ones to help him. He is going to end up dead or lifelong in prison if he does not get serious help, and the fact that his family and colleagues contribute to his continued drinking behavior implicates them as well. But we did not ban her. Drinking and driving is SO DANGEROUS! After all even a sober wolf is still a wolf who will ravage sheep if given the chance. Id take it over blind faith any day. Thus if one interprets RC Sproul Jr.s actions as not persevering then according to what they teach Sproul was never a believer. Sproul Sr. will experience MUCH MORE suffering than he is right now. We cant assume they cant be helped, no. ^The quote above belongs to Daisy, not Gail, and there was a goof in the block quotes. I really doubt most alcoholics CAN go to inpatient treatment for 30 let alone 90 days. Because I have had my nose rubbed in Sproul Jrs teaching for a couple of decades, I took my own understanding from what she said, quite the opposite of the one you seem to have taken. Both for the substance abuser Just because this was his first arrest dont assume that this was the first time he did it. Now to deal with your concerns in a more general sense (and this is where it seems we differ), in my experience most churches arent in any way qualified to deal with alkies. Association of Related Churches R C Sproul Junior needs to be put out of the church and that needs to be very publicly done because he has been so significant at Ligonier. When I was a month away from turning 13, I was invited by a friend to go to Myrtle Beach with her and her parents. in observing their lives, i see how common sense has served them very well. Had he qualified and successfully completed all the requirements of the Drug Court Treatment Program he could have avoided a criminal trial altogether. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. It is a gift. With RC Jr I just dont ever see him getting professional help, let alone sobering up for good. Often it is tried multiple times. Things that make perfect sense to you do not compute for the alcoholic, and vice versa. Its not uncommon for conversations to turn sour when people who care deeply about a topic find themselves talking past each other. According to Spinderella, Sproulhas allegedly been drunkdriving with his kids for years. @ Barbara Roberts: Maybe he should have let him truly hit bottom, so he would be more motivated to change. Praise God, that is truly His heart and should be ours. Thanks for sharing your journey with us here too. As for Presbyterian oversight his denomination defrocked him in 2006. I could have had my mother die at home like she begged and that is a sin I will never forgive myself for. Congratulations to your daughter and family, Darlene. However, he does now have a permanent criminal record, and a felony record, no less. It may be all they can do to get help. Oh, good grief. They can clarify their views here. So sorry my lived experience doesnt bolster her view points and philosophy. He excommunicates entire families for the alleged sins of just one family member. I had to be treated for major clinical depression and be put on anti-depressants. John Marshall Sproul, M.D., of Mercer Island, died suddenly October 6, 2018 at home. 5, that you mention: It runs in the family and has only one Redemptive Hope for each and all who hear the Gospel and by Grace and through Faith put their full Hope in the Righteousness of Christ to Cover (atone for) all mysin or your sin. The odds of his being able to convince a jury of his innocence was remote. Churchill might not be the best example; according to his daughter, he drank less than commonly believed. Do you realise how offensive that is? Trying to save children from the hell of an actively alcoholic parent is a good thing. A highway patrolman searching for the drunk driver who had been reported by someone witnessed the crash. Velour wrote: This includes the situation mentioned in this blog about a clergy family with substances abuse issues, to the point of endangering others. Barbara advocated that people with substance abuse problems be kicked out of the church. Bridget wrote: However, he was considered a,dry drunk,never stopped his stinking thinking. And then theres the delightful habit they have of wanting everyone around them to drink heavily as Sproul is reported to have done to normalise their issues. I turned 13 about a month after the wreck and felt like a freak! I am glad to hear about your sons recovery. Wartburgers, I suppose I should recuse myself from further comments on this piece. I personally think I was a piece of crap uncle but thats me. Our reliance on God increased 1000% during those years and we saw his blessings and mercies everyday. doesnt say it nearly strongly enough. In fact, in my post there last Monday I express outrage about how PCA churches are often excommunicating victims of domestic abuse for divorcing their abusers. I have had plastic surgery three times. The guy may have suffered tragedy but we all do in some way, shape or form. You are insisting on everyone saying treatment for alcoholics is the way to go (and I agree). I knew theyd made a typo and I found it a rather amusing typo which is why I took it further by pointing out that RC Jr needs to be born again (which entails being washed in the blood of Christ.). If people in his orbit keep hiring attorneys and keepmaking sure he has lots of money, they are enablers and will bear some of the guilt when something tragic happens. He mocks people who dont drink like he does. Hello Velour, I am sorry you were excommunicated on a trumped up charge. I am sorry to hear this. Just because this was his first arrest dont assume that this was the first time he did it. 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vesta ann sproul obituary