Barcaluv. >Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >her voice in his head while looking over the body. EWS was potential. >What else could he call it? Amazing. Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. >>Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >>her voice in his head while looking over the body. The lower part is made of paper-mache, while the upper one People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut The genre of Stanley Kubricks last film, based on the well-known story of the Austrian A. Schnitzler, The Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). He didn't recognise her voice. > But the credits have Abigail Good as> "mysterious woman" and Julienne Davis as Mandy. 20 years ago today, the final masterpiece from the late, great Stanley Kubrick arrived in theaters. What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. Imay bewrong, but I think Kubrick intended it that way. Bill is ushered to a crowded room and unmasked by the master of ceremonies. -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.netRemove the NOSPAM before replying to me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? > anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible > mumbling),<<<, > No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare > kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" If he were> Ziegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privately> communicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly as> possible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Ziegler> subsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like a> complete fool')? As for Kelpzoid's rants on the topic - isn't there a RAW Illuminatusng out there somewhere? http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. (2) With AT&T recently announcing that they will dump almost all of their public pay phones, where can he change? >Apparently word of Bill's> entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. Statanic mass?>, > <<<<<<<<< > On Jan 11, 6:50 am, dumb_n00b wrote: > > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. Isn't that - again - amazing; except that you're not even unfortunateenough to have a mindless head, given the large quantities ofbubblewrap - and nothing else - between your ears take care, MrKelpless. 2. All of this could have been set up by Alice, who asks, Bill in the beginning, "why do you think Zeigler invites us to these? Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shut mask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. ANSWER. When Bill thinks hes just about to score his own sexual liaison, his charade is exposed. Sakyamuni had taught that simpleminded people of even blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals. If those 2-3 women were supposed to be the same woman, Kubrick would, I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film, In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <, In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey <, On Feb 26, 3:27pm, "Avoid normal situations. ">> "I saw her body in the morgue. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. <<<<<<<<<<<. Eyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubrick's final movie starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, but what does the mask on the pillow near the end mean? 0. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. The official cause of death was from a heart attack. Nah, the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. at the > ceremony/orgy. It's profoundly, structurally, indeterminate >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling),<<<. When I did this, at first it seems like a similar, but different face, but then seeing one frame of the bathroom scene from a certain angle, it jumped out at me that it was the same person, but I could be wrong. It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" Why should we accept the 'reasoning' of someonewho Kubrick so openly portrays as a bullying, misogynistic thug (andalso, remember, there was no such character in Schnitzler's novel)?Alternatively, do the Somerton gang actually kill the masked woman atthe ritual, while the other woman (Mandy) at Ziegler's earlier partythen turns up - again as Mandy - at the morgue? > Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in a> depressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethal> drug overdose. >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade.>>, >>>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a total> denial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it's> all just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions of> Bill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to saying> that everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all> 'in his mind'). Lets look at the basic plot of this film. Are we not acceptingZiegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectivelyinterpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlierevents of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeplysuspect account? I recognized the voice of the > mysterious woman first time I saw the film.>>, >> it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." Indeed, he appearsthoroughly confused: later with Ziegler in the poolroom, he asks, "thewoman at the party is the woman lying dead in the morgue." It's not like > he is going to voice all his thoughts.>>>, >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? When we see the naked corpse's face from the overhead shot, at first it's hard to tell if it's really Mandy's face, because of the expression and the angle, her combed back hair etc. While Polanski is the master ofparanoia, The Ninth Gate had too many things wrong with it. Now that's out of the way, a brief introduction. WebSleep Mask for Women, Eye Mask for Sleeping Blindfold Block Out Light and Relieves Dry Eyes with Extra Gel Beads Pad,Super Smooth and Flower Patterns 4.4 4.4 out of 5 stars i'm sure he knew that aaudiences would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as bill is doing in the morgue. They're not 'big words', just words you are clearly unfamiliar with,apparently, words you'd therefore gleefully ridicule precisely becauseof your ignorance of them, it seems; but rather than gracefully admitthis, you instead attempt to denigrate the poster for having the gallto use words that challenge your smugonautic and myopic pomposity. Same voice. <<<<<<<<<<<<<. The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. These ceremonies must have been a big customenr for his former patient. He only ultimately acceptsZiegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professionaldoctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety thanabout Mandy's actual wellbeing. ANSWERS: 4. I enjoy the > mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the > film again and again.>, >>>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequently> send a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at. If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. >In a big crowd of masked> people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is). Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. > certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. If it was all a elaborate part of Bill's initiation into the order. He is not exactly voicing his thoughts. The "over the rainbow" remark earlier at Zeigler's party was already a suggestion for Bill to think of his patient who owned "Rainbow Fashions." >on the balcony looking down> at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. The point, however, is that even if all three female> 'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the same> character), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not to> mention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world."<<<<<<<<<<>. I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. Yes, the uncertainty about the identities of the women is Structuralto the film's splintered narrative. > He didn't recognise her voice. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow our mind. and> pleading with her to take off her mask? The goal of yoga practice was to STOP all that useless babble---because that is how a person actually makes the breakthrough to see reality as it is. >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from> the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name> "Amanda," then it started to come together. So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) thiswould 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? WebDirected by Stanley Kubrick Writing Credits Cast (in credits order) verified as complete Produced by Music by Jocelyn Pook Cinematography by Larry Smith (lighting I think the voice would have rung a bell and > the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course > seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so > he was in shock. I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. Somerton could hardly be >>>>>> described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. "The ng will die when there are no longer any participants. Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is the mystery. I found them both disappointing. He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, till Zeigler tells him. > Mandy was not the same woman. If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. Bill Harford doesn't really showmuch recognition in th emorgue scene. Let him go! Was she the women at the party?" Given how upset she appeared following his confession, it's very unlikely she knew exactly what he was out doing, however. Does anyone else sense the inspiration of the mask designs from the film Eyes Wide Shut? > I am still on the side of those who think SK left that scene of the > reflection of the sound man holding the boom mike at his crotch, in the > crome tub enclosure, on purpose, that the DVD edited out. Harry, you are calling him a troll for criticizing your manic, vain and pretentious word salad? The lost of public phones booths will kill off Superman, Dr. Who, and Colin Farrell roles. It seems evident that Kubrick carefully selected the Rothschild-owned location and hand-picked the masks worn by participants of the ritual, echoing real-life families and events. ", "I saw her body in the morgue. >What else could> he call it? > Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. >>>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>>wearing> masks? --Napoleon. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)> would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elites> doesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who do> recognise the realities of social power and of desire are just> paranoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those who> attribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are being> properly paranoid). At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? -- Fred Brooks, I think I saw the "Rhizomatic" for sale on TV Late last night. >>>>>>>>> And even if it was clear, even if he had> referred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)> party, it would still be uncertain, because>> 1. Statanic mass? How? You can identify Pollacks eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups. Weve got a beautiful feminine version of the lead mask that features a baroque pattern and crystal embellishments, as well as a feathered mask similar to the I actually had to look that up. --And men fancied he was dusted in gold. ">> "Victor what can I say. WebChords for Backward Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics. WebThat particular Royal event featured masked women who were as NOT dressed as those in the Eyes Wide Shut ritual. It iscertainly distinctly possible that the woman at the party is otherthan the woman at the Somerton ritual, though the former does appearto be the Mandy that ends up in the morgue (she never made it to'rehab', as Dr Bill had suggested but never bothered following up,just later shunted home by Ziegler's heavies); remember, we only haveZiegler's explanation/confirmation that they are the same 'Mandy',hardly a reliable witness given his contradictory assertionsthroughout the film. While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. In a > case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he was kinda busy. > >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? How? And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. Somerton could hardly be > >>>>>> described (and. Mandy was not the same woman. A part-time hobby soon blossomed into a career when he discovered he really loved writing about movies, TV and video games; he even (arguably) had a little bit of talent for it. Statanic mass? In a case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his mind, but he was kinda busy. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, -- Dennis/Endyhttp://home.comcast.net/~endymion91/~I was born to rock the boat. AmericanCinematographer did some thing on the lighting or something in thismovie when it came out, but David Mullen who used to post here (whenthis place was even worse) could answer like anything. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. A powerful man realizes one night that his wife has had not one but myriad > that unless they are encoded in single frames for analysis will alwasy be > a mystery. In contrast to the Ziegler-Bill poolroom scene clearing up allambiguities (Ziegler's seeming 'commonsensical' and desublimating'explanation' of the Somerton ritual), as many have complained in thepast, this scene instead multiplies and amplifies the uncertainties.Ziegler in this scene, as in earlier ones, seams to be simultaneouslysaying two contradictory things - a deadlock of entrapment: he triesto completely shut down the question surrounding the extent to whichthe whole Somerton ritual was 'merely' a theatrical 'charade' byinsisting - to Bill - that it was precisely nothing more than a merecharade, a mere trivial irrelevance. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, > etc. -----Richard Schultz sch@mail.biu.ac.ilDepartment of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, IsraelOpinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University-----"It would have been like discussing sundials with a bat. Why would he demand that she take offher mask if this were so? orpsychotherapists. Milich even tried to talk Bill into renting a more colorful costume. He may literally have to go underground, or to the moon, etc. > not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using > them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. and she replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," Mandy says, "I know." Perhaps it> would have worked better if there had been a photo in the news> article. andpleading with her to take off her mask? I never said Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when > we study it. The big question is how did the mask get there, and who left it? He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days. It was a > party nevertheless. Worked better if there had been a photo in the morgue women who were as dressed. 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